Psychological Safety in the Workplace

Episode Summary:

Audra Woods, AGS client executive for marketplace diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) in North America is joined by executive leadership coach Toby Quinton to examine the importance of cultivating psychological safety and a sense of belonging in the workplace to increase open discourse and creative solutions. This episode includes tips for both leaders and workers on how to better communicate, solve conflict, fail forward and ask for help, and how these actions can positively increase productivity.

Transcript:

Bruce Morton: Allegis Global Solutions (AGS) presents the Subject to Talent podcast, a hub for global workforce leaders to unleash the power of human enterprise. Listen in as we explore the most innovative and transformational topics impacting businesses today.

Hi, I'm Bruce Morton, the host of AGS’ Subject to Talent podcast. Today I'll be handing over the microphone to my good friend and colleague, Audra Woods. Audra is a North America client executive for marketplace diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) here at AGS. Audra has significant knowledge and expertise in DEI and more than 10 years’ experience in the staffing industry. Today she welcomes Toby Quinton, an executive coach for over 12 years, to discuss the business imperative of nurturing psychological safety in the workplace. Let's listen in.

Audra Woods: Thank you, Bruce, for the warm welcome and welcoming me back to being the guest host of our Subject to Talent Podcast. I am very excited to welcome my guest, Toby Quinton, to share his experience in coaching executive leaders and how that knowledge can be used to foster an environment of psychological safety in the workplace. So, Toby, thank you for being here. I look forward to chatting with you today.

Toby Quinton: Yeah, looking forward to being here in this conversation, Audra. I've got a chance to get to meet you a little bit and I'm looking forward to talking with you on this very important topic.

Audra Woods: Thank you. Thank you. It's a huge topic. And a little bit more about our podcast, on the AGS Subject to Talent podcast, we start our episodes by asking our guest the same question. So Toby, my question to you is how did you get into the workforce industry and what inspired you to shift to executive coaching?

Toby Quinton: Yeah, I appreciate you asking. I've spent 30 years in the corporate world and 18+ of it working as a leader within an organization and living all over North America and whatnot. And I was very fascinated and interested in the coaching aspect of leadership and an opportunity presented itself to partner up with someone that was in this business, and a very respected person that had a psychology background – a PhD in psychology. And he was doing a lot of business-type coaching before there really was business coaching. And I became very enamored with his teachings, and the impact he actually had directly on me in the teams I led. And that led me down this path of going back to university and pursuing a masters (degree) in the psychology of leadership and really homing in on becoming an executive coach.

And now I'm kind of on the other side of the table, if you will, and now I work with people in the roles that I once played as a leader. And I help them and encourage them around performance coaching and all the aspects that go into great leadership. So, it's been a great journey for me, a little over a decade now doing it. How time flies. But I am very passionate about human behavior and team behavior and trying to help people become the very best they can be.

Audra Woods: I love that because leadership is so key. I feel that in a lot of cases leaders are so focused on performance and not really the importance of the actual person. They lose sight of the person, so I love that. It's another reason why this topic is such a huge topic and why I'm so passionate about it. For me personally, some of the best leaders that I've had I was able to be myself and have that sense of psychological safety. So let's kind of talk a little bit about that. So can you define what is psychological safety? I feel like it's a huge buzzword that we all hear, but people don't really know what it is and how it relates to the workplace. So, can you kind of define that for our audience today?

Toby Quinton: Absolutely. I think you can Google psychological safety and come up with a lot of different variations as it is now commonplace in the world of a lot of different perspectives, like you said. Leadership and psychological safety can have different definitions, but I think the way I look at it is, it's an environment in which there's a belief system that you won't be punished or humiliated, if you will, for speaking up with your ideas or your questions or your concerns or even your mistakes. Bringing up things that maybe you've fallen short on, but you feel safe in order to do so. And it's a belief system and I also believe that it's in an environmental component that leaders and followers together can create.

Audra Woods: I love that and I love the fact that you mentioned speaking up. Me, myself, as a black woman in corporate America, one of the things that we typically shy away from in our culture is we do hesitate in speaking up because we don't want to be viewed as the “angry black woman” or even women in general to where we are passionate or emotional and things of that nature. So I love how you define that. Now, going a little bit deeper into this topic, why do you feel like in today's market that this topic is so important and what is the risk if employers don't truly address this topic?

Toby Quinton: Well, Audra, I love the personal touch you just took with that. There's been some studies out there around – I think Catalyst was the name of a survey that was taken recently – about half of females feel apprehensive to be able to bring their truths or speak up. And frankly, one out of five reported feeling overlooked or ignored. So as you talk about a person of color and a female, and in this case both for you, the at-risk is that you lose their voices. That there's so many obvious things that you will lose when you don't hear from people. You won't get diversity of thought, you won't have people feeling included. So no matter what your banners may say and what you say that you stand for, I believe that the action really is can you create as leaders a psychologically safe environment where people then can bring that? I think that more inclusion and diversity of thought are a couple really, really good benefits of creating a psychologically safe environment.

Audra Woods: And Toby, I just have a quick follow-up question. So you mentioned that businesses can lose the voices of the people for people that feel like they don't have that sense of belonging. So can you provide some insight on what that actually does to the business's bottom line?

Toby Quinton: Yeah. When you lose their voices, certainly obviously then you're going to have a lack of engagement from some of the people that may pull back from that. That's the obvious and performance is impacted because of their lack of participation. You're not hearing from them, they're not maybe feeling like they belong. And so psychologically when people don't feel part of something, again, this is more on the engagement side of things, you just know that people just get by and get on with it. So when you lose their voices, also you lose the opportunity of working through any interpersonal conflict. And you think of how many people don't speak up and then there's conflict between parties on teams and whatnot. And because of a lack of that voice, the impact to business on that is that people are worrying about the relationship within this group or this team and they're not spending as much time on performance and execution.

So, it's a lot about the bags that we may then start to carry because we don't feel safe to communicate aloud and speak within a team. And the more you have those moments and you can walk through how to give and receive feedback and just to walk through a lot of the elements of high-performing teams, it directly impacts the level of performance. So when it's there, performance and execution is the focus. When it isn't, we're worrying about what conversations we haven't had or our inability to be able to speak what we might need by way of needing help.

Audra Woods: No, that's a great point. And even thinking about the ideas that are not being communicated or the lack of innovation that people may feel like they can bring to the table as well if they feel like they don't have that voice to speak up. So no, amazing points there and I do have a really interesting stat just to kind of go into more detail what you mentioned. So according to the American Institute of Stress, 83% of US workers suffer from work-related stress. So it seems like there's a higher level of anxiety within the workplace today affecting absences, decision-making, creative risk-taking in the boardroom and just overall engagement with workers. So can you speak to a little bit more about how to combat these hindrances?

Toby Quinton: Yeah, I think it's an interesting thing about how much focus and time is spent on engagement, voice of employee surveys and all the different surveys that are put out by large organizations. And they're always looking at engagement and I don't think it's a coincidence that three out of 10 people feel that their opinions aren't being counted, if you will. And then when you look at engagement, only three out of 10 are typically feeling engaged, so it's not coincidental that engagement and psychological safety go together. And so I believe that it's just important to make sure that by way of if we're going to look at people's level of stress and trying to decrease that, there's so many different things. Obviously, the individual might have their own stresses outside of work, but within the workplace a sense of belonging is what you get from psychological safety.

You feel like you're a part of something and that you're contributing to that. And that's Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you will, to throw some psychology in it. It's very, very important for people to feel like they belong. Also, to feel like they're being seen and also being feel like they're being heard. All of these things are contributing factors that when you have a psychologically safe environment, people tend to feel those things. And when they do, I do believe that will have a positive, positive impact on levels of stress. It won't change the to-do list, but at least you're able to then communicate maybe, for example, where you need help.

I think when environments aren't psychologically safe, people don't feel comfortable enough to even ask for help. How many of us are sitting around suffering and ultimately the stress of that suffer, but we don't want to show our cards. We don't want to show that vulnerability. We don't want to cop to, hey, I may not know something you think I should know. And all of those are contributing factors, in my opinion, certainly through the coaching I've done with people saying, "Hey, I'm very stressed out." And part of it is, do you have the opportunity and the environment in which to open up and to ask for help and to speak what your truth might be?

Audra Woods: Wow, that really resonated a lot, for sure, especially with me. And just to kind of check for understanding, so you're saying I feel seen, I feel heard and I feel psychologically safe enough to ask for help, which will help reduce some of the stress that I have within the workplace. Is that correct?

Toby Quinton: Yeah, I always tell people struggling is inevitable in most things that we ever do in life, but suffering is optional. And I think the optional piece of that suffering might be ... And again, I say that with a lot of understanding that it's not always easy to ask for help. And again, if the environment isn't a psychologically safe one, you probably won't do it. But that's where suffering, the optional piece to it, is, that we do have a choice and we can do something about it. But again, this is where leaders really need to pay attention and say, "All right, am I getting a lot of conversations? Am I getting people asking for help? Am I getting people to take some risks, if you will, some interpersonal risks with regards to sharing and asking for some help?"

Audra Woods: No, I think that's great and that ties into the leadership piece. Having good and strong leaders, that is so important. So my question is, I know you gave a little bit of some of the tips, how can leaders know that they're creating a psychologically safe environment for their employees? How can they hold themselves accountable to make sure that they're creating that safe space?

Toby Quinton: Yeah. Well, there's a couple of things. One, to know when you have one, I think that there's a lot of different things you can look at. The number one thing that I always would tell a leader and coach with them on is just pay attention to how silent rooms are. When you're having a team meeting, for example, and you're sitting down and you're sharing what you need to share and you're discussing the topics that you do, but when you ask for the opening of, hey, does anyone have anything to contribute – if it's one of those types of meetings and you've been in, Audra, those types of meetings – and all of a sudden it's crickets.

Partly that may to do with your leadership and the ability to actually challenge and challenge you specifically, but when it's a broad scale topic, if you will, when you don't really hear much from people, that should be a tell-tale sign of maybe there's some psychological safety or lacking of psychological safety here based on just kind of what you get.

If it's a robust conversation and you see people leaning in and bringing up different opinions and maybe even pushing back with your opinion or the opinion of others in the room, then that's usually a really good sign that you probably do have a psychologically safe environment. The converse to that obviously is that when it's quiet. So I think making sure from a tip perspective with leaders, you make it a priority. You make sure that people know that you're trying to create a psychologically safe environment. Now, it's one thing to say, it's another thing to do it, but you have to put that intention out there. I like to call it ‘you call people in.’ So you know how that whole notion we grew up with, hey, I'm going to call you out, I'm going to call you out.

How about we call them in? Meaning that we ask people to participate. There's obviously some discomfort in that, but, again, if I want them to feel safe, I'll call them into the room. We have to look at failure, Audra. Failure's usually the reason why people don't speak up because they don't want to be wrong or they don't want to be kind of outed, if you will, of being wrong. And so making failure okay. You know how we grew up, again, there's no dumb question? I think if we can really push on that and make sure that people understand the environment of we want their contributions, that's more important than being right or wrong. And then there's other things like learning how to deal with conflict.

I think people could take some time and learn how to give and receive feedback. Those are some of the things that I believe that as a leader, one, to be aware of the silence and, two, making sure that you're doing a few of these things in order to make yourself feel like you've done everything you can to create a psychologically safe environment. At the end of the day, asking your people as a leader how are we doing? How do you feel about bringing your truth? How comfortable do you feel in that regard? Those are going to be some really good questions to ask of your team. And if you're consistent with asking those questions, I think you'll eventually get their truth.

Audra Woods: Toby, that was a lot of mic drop moments. I mean, you said so many key things that we can even put on t-shirts, right? Calling people in, making failure okay. All of that was some really, really great tips for our leaders. So I know you primarily coach executives, so let's shift a little bit to our listeners where they can find additional ways how they can advocate for themselves and set themselves up for success.

Another personal note for me, and I'm sure as a female, we are a lot more reluctant to be the advocate for ourselves. We always kind of look for others to advocate for us in a sense, but do you have any tips in that situation?

Toby Quinton: Yeah, absolutely. I think as a coach, this is an occupational hazard to go into some coaching, even the question you asked me, but say that you came to me with that, I'd be saying first let's start with what you believe you might need in order to feel more comfortable speaking what your truth might be. Or engaging more so in this next upcoming meeting, or feeling like you could bring your, if you had a differing, opinion, if you will. So one of it is this very individual kind of first self-discovery. What do I need in order to feel... comfortable may not be the right word because I don't know that people in general always are comfortable just speaking all the time. There is a level of discomfort embedded in it, but to feel safe is different than comfortable. So how do I make sure that I'm feeling safe enough to do that?

I think enlisting partners that you may have in your team that can keep an eye on you. And in that spirit of accountability, to have a conversation with them of, hey, I intend to speak up today or I intend to bring more. I intend to, when the questions asked, does anyone have anything? And as you go down that road of intention, what I would do is I would enlist partners that could non-verbally maybe give you encouragement or maybe you'll ask them to contribute also and I was thinking the same way. Or, hey, Audrey, do you have something to say here? And they could gently call you in. I always say create the conditions for your success. So if your intentions are to bring more conversation to the meeting that you're going to have, what are some of the conditions that you as an individual can set? And to me, it really starts there because if you're doing the things that you believe you might need, you're much more likely to lean in and show up the way you want to show up.

Audra Woods: I love that. I actually took note of what you just said, to create the conditions of your success. I love that. That is actually going to be my new mantra and I hope our listeners actually take that away as well. So, I know we're wrapping up pretty soon. So, after you speak with your talent acquisition leaders, or CHROs, or any senior leaders, I know you've gave a lot of tips across the board, but what will be that key takeaway, like your golden nugget about just creating a workplace of psychological safety?

Toby Quinton: Well, I think it starts with authenticity and vulnerability to really speak as a leader what your truth is about the environment and the culture you want to create. I always say to people, a culture will create itself if you don't. So, I believe that if we don't do anything as leaders and as followers, if we don't contribute to building of a psychologically safe culture, then we're at risk of never manifesting that. And so we all need to be involved in it, the leader and the followers, because it does take two to have that dialogue and that risk taking, if you will. And so it's risky for a leader to just say I want to create this or I want to create that because what if they don't? But at least they're intentional about it, so be authentic about what your genuine want and desire is with regards to this environment and culture you want to create.

And then as a follower in the room, what is it again? Like we'd said, what do I need from that authentically knowing, hey, these are the things that will help me bring more of my truth and create that safety for all of us so that I can fail forward, I can speak my truth, I can get into some healthy conflict, but at the end of the day we're more inclusive and we have a much richer diversity of thought. And at the end of the day, I believe that's how great teams become high performing teams.

Audra Woods: That's awesome, especially the authenticity. I'm sure that we all have felt if our leader or someone asks how are you doing today, we've all taken a pause and said, "Do they want the real answer?"

Toby Quinton: Exactly.

Audra Woods: Do I share how I really feel or do I just give the normal answer of just saying I'm fine, right? Well, Toby, thank you so much. We really like to in our episodes with looking into the future, so we always have a crystal ball question. So, considering where we at today in terms of the conversation around psychological safety in the workplace, where do you see attitudes or leadership practices developing over the next, let's say, five to 10 years?

Toby Quinton: Yeah, that's a tough question to know kind of exactly where these leadership practices and these beliefs would be. I just feel that it may not be something that's so earth shattering of a change. I think some companies do it and they may be 10 to 15 years ahead of time already, but really more of a shared leadership methodology, if you will. Meaning that more of us are more responsible to being leaders not only of ourselves, but of each other and that we share in that leadership. You probably, just like me, the best leaders I ever had felt partly like they were part of the team with me and then they led us through conflict or crisis, if you will. And I think just making sure that people know that these careers that we hold and the jobs we get in, no matter how expertise is so important, leadership will always be important as well.

And as an additive, you need to also bring your leadership and push yourself to become more of a leader because I do believe that there's many leaders in a lot of rooms. I just don't know that all of those leaders are, one, believing in themselves, leaning in and bringing their voice to the table. And then I also don't know that many leaders are creating an environment where it's not so hierarchal and that they want to share in the leadership. So, in that real collaborative sense, I believe that's where the future will continue to go, that more and more of us that have a hand on the steering wheel will ultimately, while all of us will, benefit from it as well as the organizations.

Audra Woods: That's a perfect wrap-up. Way to sum it up and I feel the same. I mean, I'm really, really passionate about having good leaders. You have managers and then you have leaders. So just leaving for the audience today, just making sure that you are being that leader where you're creating that psychological safety environment for your teams. So just to wrap it up, so what should listeners do if they want to learn more about you?

Toby Quinton: Well, they can definitely reach out on me a lot of different angles, certainly through email, LinkedIn. There's a lot of different ways to get ahold of me, so I think that any of the ways that people would go and reach out, they can definitely get ahold of me, for sure.

Audra Woods: Okay, perfect. Thank you so much, Toby. This was very powerful, very enlightening and very insightful. So I've learned a lot. I'm excited to take away some things and incorporate within myself and I hope our listeners will do the same.

Toby Quinton: You got it. Audra, yeah, it was a pleasure meeting you, for sure, and then walking this road with you today.

Audra Woods: Likewise.

Bruce Morton: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you have questions, send them to SubjectToTalent@AllegisGlobalSolutions.com. Follow us on LinkedIn with the #SubjectToTalent and learn more about AGS at AllegisGlobalSolutions.com, where you can find additional workforce insights and past episodes. Until next time, cheers.